Talk:Two-spirit

Removed terms

• Blackfeet
  • Male: Aki-skassi
  • Female: Aki-Gwan

I removed the above terms as there is no source and no indication of which group called "Blackfeet" uses those terms. It is not the Blackfoot of the Blackfoot Nation located in Montana. Hyacinth 20:20, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

See http://www.nwtwospiritsociety.org/history.html Ronabop 12:47, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The article linked to above doesn't specify any more than the wikipedia article does.

1. See: Blackfoot. WHICH Blackfoot group uses the terms?
2. According to Bruno Nettl (1989) there is no documentation of MTF (for lack of a better term) Two-Spirit folks, while there are well documented FTM or "manly hearted women".

Hyacinth 22:30, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

a'kiikoan ~ aakiikoan, which is probably what was meant by "Aki-Gwan", simply is the word for "girl", composed of a'kii ~ aakii "woman" and -koan "person" (the latter as in siksikakoan "Blackfoot person" etc.). So, sorry, no "manly hearted woman" here. The terms (Siksika A a'kiihka'si "acting like a woman", aawoowa'kii "misaligned woman"), with dialectal variation (Siksika A/B, Kainaa-Piikani A/B/C), are in use with all groups. In case of doubt, you may look up words in Frantz/Russell's dictionary, curricula and researchers' fieldnotes. Heike B.22:25, 10 Apr 2006 (CEDT)

Lead tweak

Since there's a note making the request, I just wanted to specify that I changed "modern" to "contemporary" since they are essentially synonymous in this context as far as I can tell, and it flows better in the sentence in my opinion. Cheers. Remsense诉 08:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Wow this is time I'll never get back This is more of an endictment of Universities. It's where brains go to die.Just Preachy and filled with moronic immoral far left wing views on everything.You know a lot of words and read a lot of books but somehow know nothing.Instead of preaching and putting down white people talking nonsense about cultural appropriation and the turn two spirit is a sacred thing the evil white people couldn't understand or try to squash. I'll get back to to the appropriation in a bit. As far as the article goes in Wikipedia which is supposed to be facts but you say over and over I feel like this or that. You should change the title to the left wing nonsense people on the left are talking about. It was Preachy, opinionated, and just wrong weird one would say ungodly. opinions.Look what you brainiacs have already done. You gave women welfare and benefits as long as the dad wasn't there? What was the consequences? The government became dad and dad didn't matter anymore.He's just a deadbeat right? Well without dad around the kids list there damn minds.They had no male role model and dad was demonized.Ask any old-timer from 3rd ward in Houston or Compton in LA and they all say you could walk on the streets and feel safe. That changed with LBJ in the 60's, I want to say 64.Same people who think Phycology is more than a glorified 8 ball you shake, or an actual science that wasn't invented by a coked up socialist who wanted to fornicate with his own mom. You know the ones that chastised me for not wearing a paper mask to stop a or even slow a virus? The ones who used to put leaches on people to cure them, and the ones who say farting cows are making the earth hot? That's what you get when you join that weird cult called University.You could have summed it up by simply saying 2600:1700:D010:2AE0:A4F8:CF0B:6D99:DD91 (talk) 08:58, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Part 2. You could have simply said a two spirit is a native that was born with a little sugar in the tank but had different roles. All this preaching about the wording is stupid.About cultural appropriation 2600:387:15:1F30:0:0:0:4 (talk) 09:02, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

White people get appropriated all the time. Do you use toilet paper? Do you drive a car? Do you have a cell phone? When natives go to the moon holler at me. I just can't believe how lost some people are but they think they are enlightened. Your not enlightened. The name slave came from the slavs.They took so many the just referred the whole culture to slaves.I talked to an old native in Oklahoma and he doesn't want natives to be associated with whatever you are calling that silliness you wrote. I hope one day logic will make it's way to colleges. Now it's a pariah with ideas based in utter nonsense. I hope you are native and not white. If you are white and wrote that your kind of that first term they used to describe eliminate natives.Why are some white people bashing there own culture and pretending they are evil when By the way, before the whites came and brought you air conditioning and plumbing and electricity the natives weren't this peaceful place where they need to be held any higher than any other people.America incorporates parts of many cultures it's a melting pot right? It's our culture not those evil white people who just aren't enlightened.Its incorrect and it's just weird to be saying all your nonsense and passing it off as facts. You just need help, I hope you get it.The poor people in America live like kings in most of the world. You want to bash the white people who started this idea of liberty but admiditly didn't always live by that I know.we came up with all this technology that you can drive a car, have roads to drive them on, Airplanes, satellites, and unfortunately social media but instead of thanking us for our accomplishments you call us evil colonizers. All the benefits but none of the responsibility that comes with that.The bottom line is it takes a masculine society to thrive.Tge men who can defend himself and his people. Not just America but Romans,Egyptians,Greeks where conquistadors. Attila, Alexander, Cesar, Hannibal. What did they have in common?They won in war or you wouldn't even know they existed. Well this country was built on the backs of slaves and other minorities. Slavery ended in 1865 and the oldest building in Houston and perhaps the only building in Houston built before the civil war was built by German church members. No the Chinese did help build the railroads being treated like dogs but most of America has been built since 1865. Only difference with the Chinese is they took that masculine energy and made something of themselves,Asians get paid more, are more educated, and the result is pulling themselves up. Like many other minorities who came by choice or not, they didn't speak the language, know the culture, but instead of pretending to be a forever victim they overcame. Your eternal victim mentality is the actual problem.that you literally had to use the word misinformation? I haven't heard that term since the Soviet Union. I guess that's the point though. The money behind these silly ideas are just using you as a useful idiot and you too will be suppressed after your usefulness runs out? Then what? One thing about you left wing ideologs is eventually at the end there will only be one of you left and he will be the dictator. Then it's gonna suck when you realize it's all based on lies to suppress and divide.stop talking about race. Only then will it improvement Content of character not content of there skin color.it ain't Jim Crowe anymore I've never owned anyone and I doubt black people are going to mess up there Nikes to pick cotton. America isn't just my culture it's all of us. Regardless of past evils. We came up with Democracy in the modern age and eventually corrected it's flaws and will continue to do so.We are the most advanced strongest country in the history of mankind and it was our idea but it took all of us. The natives I've met don't get offended by all this terms to take a native American things and make it fit with your lost ideology and the linguistic gymnastics to make any story fit your lost victim mentality based on nonsense.You ACTUALLY think you are enlightened? Just lost in this cult that has poisoned what we stand for. The French had wordy ideas too. They enlightened everyone until a lot of heads got chopped off including the enlightened types like today's universities. They got smashed by Hitler in just a couple weeks. So much for those lofty ideas. It took aggression and ingenuity to knock Hitler on his ass. You seem like those dingalings at college who are protesting Gays for Palestine? They aren't soft in the middle East if any gays went to Gaza they would laugh as they throw them off the building. If you entitled university types who can afford lofty ideas said any of this to Stalin, Hitler, are Chairman Mao you rightly wouldn't be taken seriously by any of them They might entertain you if it serves a purpose but it took American and Soviet men to defeat Hitler, not your lofty ideas gone wild. You are in an echo chamber and don't realize how lost you seem to most everyone else. Thugs only speak one language. I've heard that every civilization before us was built on masculine strength and weapons technology and fighting skills and torn down by the elites who are so corrupt that the civilization starts breaking down, it starts rotting. In the Greeks and Romans case they started getting weird ideas about gender too at the end. It's happening right now. Why do 25% of kids in school say they are some type of gay? Something bigger is going on. 30 years ago it was around 2% or something? What about our culture is having so many people are saying this now. I know school is and evil place that just indoctrinated so many innocent children with these ideas. It's spiritual, there is a dark force encouraging kids to think this nonsense. I don't care if you are gay, The society is encouraging kids to think this at 10 years old? Wtf. Is Alex Jones right? Are they putting chemicals in the water that are turning the frogs gay. Every city in America is a dystopian nightmare run by Democrats. They should tolerate gays they have always been here but it wasn't being pushed to kids back then.this isn't a wording issue it's a spiritual issue. Your so smart why has the number grown expediently higher in just 30 years. They are pushing poison on our kids.school has no business talking about such things. It's just as bad if not worse than making non Christian kids pray to a Christian God before school.in the Spanish defense they didn't know what to think, they was about to do the inquisition.Tgey would burn you alive.I think organized religion made them so brutal. It wasn't just white people,all people where just cruel then. Africans sold there own to white people but honestly the system was in place from the Muslims taking African slaves. Those natives weren't any better. They took American, Mexican, and other natives as slaves. They didn't live peacefully but definitely simpler.They would raid other tribes and some would actually eat there enemies because it supposedly made them stronger? Ok so besides the Donner party and Jeffrey Danger white people don't eat other people. We are so oppressive that everyone has any information at his fingers, we are fat and ignorant.We got away from what made us the greatest people in the history of earth. Talking about America. Anyway that article wasn't fact it was a sign that we have lost our way.This same poison mind frame has made movies unwatchable. They fired Jake from State farm and put a black Jake in there. Progress? No it's the exact thing Martin Luther King talked about.He wanted equality not decisions based on race. How many Lesbian superhero movies do they have to ruin with this weirdness? Snow White doesn't need a man? Evidently she doesn't need to get paid either m You can't stay in business losing $100 million every film. One day a future civilization is going to see this article and say see, this is what killed America. This sick mindset. Why can't we just go back to the day where gay people went to there own hangouts and tried to act normal around the rest of us? We knew if course but thank God we didn't have to talk about it.The bottom line is just because you are doing all these mental gymnastics to appease two gasp... minorities that you had to talk basically out of your butt to try to pull that off. You won't do it so I will. I make normal people laugh so I really don't care what anyone else thinks. Natives where brutal to other natives. They lived outside in the elements and where like every culture had wars constantly. They didn't have a road, didn't even know what a wheel was. No writing unless you count buffalo on caves.it wasn't white people who oppress it's everyone in all of history. Every attempt at an utopian society has failed miserably and ended up dystopian. Kinda like La or San Francisco.but they care so much but you can't walk down the sidewalk without homeless tents feces, and drugs everywhere. Great job keep it up. Anyway I had some time to burn I'm not trying to be mean you just don't realize that you and a lot of people are pushing a dystopian agenda but are calling it enlightenment. Then you get mad when normal America shakes it head at you. You try to make us call dudes women and whatever else. 2 genders is not a western idea. It's just facts. Just because you lost your mind and talk to lampshades doesn't mean the rest of us have to pretend the lampshade is real. It's actually insane. It's like how did all those Germans go along with what was going on. Everyone can see you are in a weird godless cult and are fast and loose with facts yeah they had gay natives. They had words for them in different tribes. Some tried to ignore it, some thought it curious, and some thought wtf. You talk about these type of things today and the response is similar. Different crowds have different responses and yes the most successful natives where the ones who where the most aggressive and rigid in there beliefs. The war tribes with might made policy. They wasn't nice about it either. Damn I figured out what a wheel was at 3 years old, why was that over there head. They could have built ships to conquer foreign land. They could have known what math is? Could have made weapons. The Karakawa Indians had oil but they used it as sealant.They wasn't united. The same thing happened to my people and just a few hundred years before it happened here in America. The Romans with all their might not ideas but they had some good ideas. My people where living a nomadic life as the tribes of Germany.Ww had our own gods and belief system. The Romans took over most of Europe and imposed there will on us. They failed in Germany because all the might and technology couldn't help them in Guerrilla warfare. They ultimately decided that everyone had to be Christian and did horrible things to make it happen.They destroyed our pagan clan culture and they killed dissenters. Alot of my culture was oppressed by the same people. The hypocrites in Rome and the Catholic Church who's horrors matched the the oppression here. Well that has always happened in history where one people more advanced and had the most might. 2600:1700:D010:2AE0:A4F8:CF0B:6D99:DD91 (talk) 11:32, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

1990 Date

I personally knew a Native American who self-identified the term two-spirit in 1980, so I wonder about the source of using 1990 as the date this term was created.

REF: "Coined in 1990 as a primarily ceremonial term promoting community recognition ..." Nemanistatoo (talk) 19:08, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

as usual wiki pidea has proven to be a source of misinformation. Berdachi was the word given for the "third gender" by french fur trappers back in at least the early 19th century. They encountered this in the Lakota tribes as it was " institutionalized" in their society. Berdachi is given to us by french trappers 166.230.18.30 (talk) 20:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that the date is just inaccurate. We have art by Lucy Qinnuayuak, an Inuit artist, titled “Hunters and Women approaching Two Spirit” from 1965. This term was not coined in 1990. 131.191.82.160 (talk) 19:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

that's a little deceptive. that refers to this drawing of two actual spirits, not the term "Two-Spirit" https://cowleyabbott.ca/artwork/AW33199 Tofflenheim (talk) 22:37, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Pan-indian

The term pan-indian should come from the erroneous european idea that natives like Cherokee, Sioux, Apache were indians because Columbus went in search for the "indies". I suppose any native of those lands could feel misrepresented with that term, so I suggest a discussion to be brought forward. 93.34.128.12 (talk) 11:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Documenting Queer of Color Cultural Production

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2025 and 2 May 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pirishkunish (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Xvazqz.

— Assignment last updated by Juamari (talk) 14:37, 12 March 2025 (UTC)